...Nansdo, ...I got in touch with ABS Alaskan, and they have a kind of Darrieus water turbine.. the figures they have for 2.5 ft/second is close to 5kw ( a 25% increase over my initial estimation )  ..and, that output would do nicely for my purposes.  Though, the COST is WAY above what a PowerPal costs, or what Gary St. Onge has, but to use his systems, necessitates a lot more civil works, so the overall costs may be quite similar in the end.


  What I'm trying to do is get something up and running without much river diversion for masonry work, power house, stable penstock siting, etc . What the ABS system seem to need is a WELL-ANCHORED flotation device to mount the turbine on, ... one  which could survive the frequent high flows in the river channel  ( by floating up on the rising levels..).

----------------------------------------

From: "Nando" <nando37@tx.r...>

Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 6:06 PM

To: microhydro@yaho...

Subject: Re: [microhydro] Re: Microhydro Permits in Washington State



TONY:


You need to check your available power , the stream velocity of 2 ft/sec = 0.609 m/sec has a very low energy that can be harvested


For this case we can use the same formula used to calculate the wind mill harvesting capabilities replacing the air density by water density ( it is a factor of about 1000 X) , still the harvested energy is low .


Correct  1.41-1.69 cms -- you may mean M^3 = Cubic meters.


For these types of water sources it is best to pipe ( using large diameter low pressure pipes to acquire some head to the level desired) to produce enough energy.


Nando


----- Original Message -----

From: Tony Goffe

To: microhydro@yaho...

Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 04:04

Subject: Re: [microhydro] Re: Microhydro Permits in Washington State


Emmanuel, mi compadre... hows the X-flow working ?? I just came from a Rastafarian camp (yesterday) along the upper Milk River near Porus ( do Google Earth.. locate me : "Mandeville".. then go : Williamsfield...Porus... and just past Porus, is Scotts Pass.. the a river wth not much fall, but 50-80 cfs / 1.41-1.69 cms and a stream depth of 5ft/1.53 m ...so, I am thinking of a surface-mid level helical-type turbine.. what you think?? This would be much easier than building any civil works close to the river, which has some serious flash-flooding episodes. Anyone have an idea?? Want 5kw..( for a start) ...will expand as I do more measurements.. take care, tony PS the surface velocity in the CENTRE of the stream is 2ft per sec/ .6 m. per sec


----------------------------------------


From: "Emmanuel Ajani" <ajaniae@yaho...>


Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2011 11:09 AM


To: "microhydro@yaho..." <microhydro@yaho...>


Subject: Re: [microhydro] Re: Microhydro Permits in Washington State


Welcome back Tony.


I didn't know it was that bad. Just thought you wanted to be silent for a while like some of us.


Cheers


Emmanuel


Sent from my iPad


On 15 Oct 2011, at 11:28, "Tony Goffe" <tony@peen...> wrote:


> Dear group, .........................have just got back my to computer after being off for about four months... I can understand the unfortunate effects of the hurricane on the North-East of the USA... Climate change and killer hurricanes are so yearly stress-point for us in the Caribbean.. We are very fortunate this year (so far!) in Jamaica,...but I know all about catastrophic floods and the damage they do to all aspects of an area's


>


> ----------------------------------------


>


> From: "solarorcas" <eric@rain...>


>


> Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2011 1:47 AM


>


> To: microhydro@yaho...


>


> Subject: [microhydro] Re: Microhydro Permits in Washington State


>


> Hi Mike,


>


> I have jumped through the hoops to get a microhydro system permitted in Washington, so I can give you some advice.


>


> The Dept of Ecology permit is for the non-consumptive water right. They are totally backed up in that office and they are correct in saying that it will take years for them to get around to processing your application. The main thing is to get an application started, put the notice in the local newspaper, etc. Sounds like maybe you have already done that. We went ahead with our project while the water right application was pending. They did finally get around to approving our water right, and the fact that the hydro was installed was not a problem at all. I think most of the water rights they are issuing are for existing diversions. Nobody waits for the permit...


>


> You'll need to fill out a Hydraulic Project Approval (HPA) to work in the creek. That goes out to WDFW and Army Corps of Engineers and probably some other agencies. Fish and wildlife was quite responsive in our case and because there are no fish in the creek and there is always some water around for terrestrial wildlife it was not a problem for us. If you are in a salmon bearing watershed that could be a totally different story for you however.


>


> You may need a building permit of some kind from your County. We got something called a Discretionary Use Permit, which required mainly sending out a notice to all the neighbors and giving them a chance to complain if they wanted to. Nobody did, so it was quick and easy.


>


> Finally, the main permit that the utility cares about is the electrical permit from Labor & Industries. If you hire a licensed electrician they will pull that permit for you and it is all about the safety of the electrical installation and NEC compliance. They will not require you to have any of the other permits. Again, that one should be easy.


>


> I just spoke to a new client about another grid-tied microhydro project here on the island so it looks like I might get to jump through all those hoops again myself! Can't say as I'm excited but this time hopefully I might get paid for my time, which is nice!


>


> Have fun, and good luck!


>


> Eric Youngren


>


> Island Energy Systems LLC


>


> Orcas Island, WA


>


> --- In microhydro@yaho..., mike matheson <madisoncounty2000@...> wrote:


>


> >


>


> > I remember some time ago there was  discussion on this site about getting permission from Washington State DOE to set up and run a unit here. I have a salvaged Pelton wheel, most of the needed penstock in place and stream with a 90 ft. waterfall. I applied to DOE over two years ago and got no reply. When I wrote them their response was that they were so very busy they just thought they would never get around to looking at my application, even though it was for nonconsumptive use which is supposed to be at the top of the priority list for applicants. They said that if I hired a private consultant to do what I would consider their work (for about $5,000) they might consider looking at my application. Does anyone have any suggestions on getting around this bottleneck? Many people have suggested I just put the unit in without permission but I want it to be grid tied and am sure the local utility will want me to have all the permits in place.Michael


>


> >


>


> > --- On Mon, 9/26/11, bfay@... <bfay@...> wrote:


>


> >


>


> > From: bfay@... <bfay@...>


>


> > Subject: Re: [microhydro] Re: Proposal to restore HYDRO-POWERED VILLAGES IN MAINE.....any experience.!!.


>


> > To: microhydro@yaho...


>


> > Date: Monday, September 26, 2011, 7:20 PM


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> >


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> > Dear Joel:


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> >


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> >


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> >


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> > Our new plant, Indian River HEP, on the Westfield River had its 7 foot diameter by 60 foot long penstocks and pressure cases filled 1/2 way up with sand and gravel. The flood water overtopping the dam pushed gravel and rocks into our tailrace and blocked off the draft tubes.


>


> >


>


> >


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> >


>


> > The person who got devastated, was my good friend, Chris Krueger. He owns Brockway Mills HEP on the Williams River. He has 112 sq mi of drainage area. He has never seen more then 5000 cfs in his river. During Irene, the flow in the river went from 175 cfs to a cataclysmic 48, 900 cfs in a span of 6 hours. This is a good sized flow on the Connecticut River with 6000 sq. mi. of drainage area. Chris has never seen more than 5 feet of water over his dam. The flood crest peaked at 22 feet over his dam. It filled the 3 story powerhouse up to its top with muddy water. All of his electronics, switch gear, electrical breakers and hydraulic systems were destroyed. Karen and I went up the following Wednesday and shoveled out mud for the afternoon. Chris is such a wonderful, upbeat person, but I have never seen him so down.


>


> >


>


> >


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> >


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> > My other good friend, Jay Boeri, had his Northfield, VT plant flooded out. The bakery upstream had just finished baking its bread for the day. All of the loaves of bread ended up with the mud in his powerhouse. He spent days shoveling out fermenting mud. Simon Pierce's dam, powerhouse and glass blowing works were badly damaged.


>


> >


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> >


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> >


>


> > The silver lining is that no one was killed or injured. I really appreciated Suzy's support and her referral of my site to others. I started the website as an online reference for me. The site has really taken off and I am receiving 300 to 400 hits per day from all over the world. I keep adding things to it. Today I found my original powerhouse design notes, with all of my sketches, for the Natick Dam in Pawtucket, RI, that I made for John Webster many years ago. I am going to scan it and put it on the site.


>


> >


>


> >


>


> >


>


> > Thank you so much for your support, Nando's support, Suzy's support and all the wonderful people on the micro hydro Yahoo group. Nando is incredible!! I am amazed at his Herculean efforts at responding to everyone's e-mails. If he ran for President, he would have my vote!!!


>


> >


>


> >


>


> >


>


> > Sincerely,


>


> >


>


> >


>


> >


>


> > Bill Fay


>


> >


>


> >


>


> >


>


> > Sincerely


>


> >


>


> > ----- Original Message -----


>


> >


>


> > From: joel@...


>


> >


>


> > To: microhydro@yaho...


>


> >


>


> > Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 11:44 AM


>


> >


>


> > Subject: Re: [microhydro] Re: Proposal to restore HYDRO-POWERED VILLAGES IN MAINE.....any experience.!!.


>


> >


>


> >


>


> >


>


> > Hey Willian sorry you got hit so hard by Irene. I always keep updated on your site. I was happy to see your daughter on here as well.


>


> >


>


> > hang in there and I hope things come back together for you quickly.


>


> >


>


> > Joel


>


> >


>


> >


>


> >


>


> > From: bfay@...


>


> >


>


> > Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 4:54 PM


>


> >


>


> > To: microhydro@yaho...


>


> >


>


> > Subject: Re: [microhydro] Re: Proposal to restore HYDRO-POWERED VILLAGES IN MAINE.....any experience.!!.


>


> >


>


> >


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> >


>


> > Howdy Suzy:


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> >


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> >


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> >


>


> > I ave been a liitle down because of Irene. We all got hit pretty bad. Thanks for your wonderful support of an old man !!!! God bless you, your sweetheart and your children. If this is inappropriate, good bless you as an incedibly, sweet person!!


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> >


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> > Quite beutifically,


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> > I remain,


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> > William K. Fay P.E. President,


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> >


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> > Swift River Hydro Operations Company


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> >


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> >


>


> > PS: Nirvanah is always near!!!


>


> >


>


> > ----- Original Message -----


>


> >


>


> > From: susankaveny1


>


> >


>


> > To: microhydro@yaho...


>


> >


>


> > Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 11:36 AM


>


> >


>


> > Subject: [microhydro] Re: Proposal to restore HYDRO-POWERED VILLAGES IN MAINE.....any experience.!!.


>


> >


>


> >


>


> >


>


> > Look at Frenchriverland's website. That's a good place to look at restored hydro plants and a good place to look at the process. It takes a while to load because it has LOTS of pictures. You may want to use it as a reference source, too.


>


> >


>


> > Sue Kaveny


>


> >


>


> >


>


> >


>


> > --- In microhydro@yaho..., "Frank" <fjheller@> wrote:


>


> >


>


> > >


>


> >


>


> > > Hi..I've developed an initiative for the Governor's Energy 'czar' that would


>


> >


>


> > > restore and enhance many of the once prosperous hydro-powered villages in


>


> >


>


> > > Maine. The dams, sluices, penstocks, and tidal gates would be restored in a


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> >


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> > > way to enhance the quality of the water; facilitate fish migration up & down


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> >


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> > > stream; generate power for a local grid; and renovate associated mills for


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> > > retail, professional, and residential use.


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> > > Does anyone have experience in any or some of the areas covered by this


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> > > initiative? I'm especially interested in innovative adaptive innovations


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> >


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> > > and costs for each element.


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> > > Frank J. Heller, MPA


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> >


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> > >


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> >


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> > > KATAHDIN ENERGY WORKS


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> >


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> > >


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> > > www.KatahdinEnergyWorks.com


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> >


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> > >


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> > > 12 Belmont St.


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> >


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> > >


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> > > Brunswick, Maine 04011


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> >


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> > >


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> > > .N. New Englands' MICROHYDRO specialist!


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